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Carbondale’s godfather of hip-hop speaks out

Local rap pioneer and producer Ricc Johnson expresses his views on the industry, the local scene and his future in music.

The city of Carbondale has witnessed a bevy of hip-hop showcases, dealing with some of the finest rap SIUC students and their peers have to offer.

But make no mistake. Hip-hop has had a place in Carbondale long before it was popular to showcase such artists. It took the hard work of local pioneers in the genre to pave the way for the day when a hip-hop showcase is an acceptable thing. The dynamic “godfather of local hip-hop” and CEO of Black4Life Productions, Ricc Johnson, is one of these very people. With almost 20 years of experience as a rapper and producer and three critically acclaimed albums to his credit, the 38-year-old Johnson is a major force to reckon with.

Mr. Johnson recently granted representatives of the Pulse the opportunity to come to his home studio in Carbondale to discuss his views on industry politics, the state of hip-hop and his aspirations for the future.

Pulse:So far there’s been a lot of talk about SIU hip-hop as local, and yet some feel there’s a difference between truly local hip-hop and SIU hip-hop. Could you explain how it is that you have grown up and become part of the city?

Johnson:I came here with my mom in ’69 or ’70. We went back and forth between here and Indianapolis because her and my dad were getting a divorce. We eventually decided to stay with my grandmother, and so I’ve been here for over 20 years. I’ve been buying records from Plaza Records ever since they opened.

Pulse:When did you actually start getting involved with music?

Johnson:I first got exposed to the mainstream when I started out doing jingles for local businesses. I’d do them in rap form because back then rap wasn’t really widely accepted like it is now, and Carbondale was mainly a rock ‘n’ roll town. None of the bars on the Strip were really catering to rap music.

That was about ’85 or ’86. Now I consider myself more of a producer.

Pulse:Were there rappers other than yourself who started to do things at the time?

Johnson:It wasn’t just me. When I was doing my jingle thing you had other groups up here in the neighborhood doing, I guess what you could call, their “underground” thing. Boss G (Gerald Armour) and William Bollinger (Rymes1) have been doing it just as long as me. There’s just so many to list them all. Derrick Underwood, Maurice Campbell – the list goes on and on.

They were doing their own thing in the underground, and I was actually trying to cross over to the mainstream to get some type of show or spotlight.

Pulse:When you started out rapping, did you see yourself rapping about universal things that everyone could relate to, or did you focus it more on stuff that you and your friends were involved in?

Johnson:Starting out, because I was new, I had to find myself as a rapper, and I didn’t really know what it was I wanted to rap about. When I started getting into it, it was the days of Ice-T, N.W.A. and Public Enemy, so then we were trying to focus a little bit on what they were doing maybe to be more accepted. Being a little bit older now, and being used to the game, it is about personal feelings. So it’s just an expression of me, and this is the only place I can do it without being considered politically incorrect.

We [Johnson’s original hip-hop group, BFI Posse] entered the Soundcore Battle of the Bands back in 1990. We were the only rap group to date that entered that. It was a political thing, and they did us wrong. You ever hear of the Blue Meanies? They were the coldest band in the area at that time. They stuck us up against them in the very first round, and we f***ed everyone up because we almost one. It opened the doors and we played all the clubs, and down in Memphis, Tenn. Nightlife had rumors that we were supposed to open for N.W.A. in Chicago, and we were reading it for the first time. It was the same kind of paparazzi you get if you’re famous, but on a local level. That was the BFI Posse – 1990.

Pulse:I heard the “Representin’ the East Side” track . . .

Johnson:Yeah, I performed that song back at Hangar 9 back in October. It was a 30-minute set. That song was from my third CD (“Southern Ill”). My first CD was the Black4Life compilation (1998) that really pushed me out there as a producer, rapper, whatever who was trying to do something. However, the quality and way it was put together really sucked. But I got a good response out of it that led to my second CD.

Pulse:When you’re producing your stuff and you’re working with some of the other guys, do you find yourself sampling a lot, or do you try to stay away from that and work things out on your own?

Johnson:Sampling anymore has become more of a sport. And it really is a sport. It’s not what you sample, but how you sample it. If you take a normal loop, a well-known loop of a song, and sample it like that like P. Diddy – I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that because it sells a lot of units – but if you take a loop like that it’s one type of sample. But if you break it down into a hundred different parts, and only use one of those parts, then you have a different sound, and a different sample.

I’ve got a sampler right here. That’s how I get my sounds. I don’t necessarily pull loops, but I pull sounds and manipulate them, speed them up, slow them down, chop them up – whatever it takes to get my sound.

Pulse:How do you come up with a song? Do you come up with lyrics first and create a beat to fit the lyrics, or is it the opposite?

Johnson:Being a producer, I do a lot of beats. I have a lot of beats in storage already. If there’s a beat that I really like, I’ll write to it, but I hate to write. I would really just like to focus on the music and let somebody else do the writing. But I find a beat that I like, and when I write to it I write what’s going on with me.

I don’t really want a record deal as far as rapping. I don’t want to be the guy in the video. I want to stay in the background and work with the beats, and not the center stage.

Pulse:Was there ever a time when you did want all that?

Johnson:When we first got into rap, we thought that’s what you did is look for the record deal. Now that I’ve gotten a little bit older, and know a little bit more about the legal side of things, it makes me rethink how I want to get into the game.

I’m older now and I don’t really want the fame. I want the money. I want to take care of my family. That’s what I’ve been doing, but it would be nice to get a check off of it.

Pulse:What are some of the legal things?

Johnson:A lot of it is from the interviews that artists do. I try to watch every interview, “Behind The Music” and “All Access,” they have so I can learn each story. You know how they ask you what your influences are in the rap game? Everyone who has picked up a microphone. Not necessarily the rap style, but from their career. Even Vanilla Ice.

He taught me what not to do. Honestly. If you watch his career, it’s what you shouldn’t do as an artist. And if you sit and watch it, don’t act all negatively. Learn from it, and see where he went wrong and try to correct that.

I also try to read everything I can get my hands on. I like to read marked contracts. That’s why there are entertainment lawyers because I don’t understand all that. I’ve read a lot of contracts, and there’s a lot of literature on the business itself. There’s a lot of stuff that goes on the other side that people don’t know about. That’s why they sign 17 and 18-year-olds. You can give them a BMW and a $10,000 necklace and they’ll sign their soul away.

Somebody like me who’s a little older I want to see it on paper so I can sign it. I’ve got a car, so you can keep your car. I’m not that flashy, so you can keep your chains. But you can convert that into money, so there’s a difference. That’s why they sign young artists. They get ripped off. Someone like me who reads about that, I see the fast money.

Pulse:You mentioned a lot of the original local rappers, but are there new local artists who are coming out that you think people should be keeping an eye out for?

Johnson:Well, I’ll put it like this. There are a lot of good, young artists around here. But there’s the simple fact that there’s really not a lot of outlet for it, and they don’t really have the knowledge about how to go about setting up a show. They don’t know who to talk to. If there’s not outlet for it, they don’t see it. They’re young in their minds, so they don’t really see the benefit of rapping for an all white audience at the Hangar. They don’t see the benefits in that, so ‘why should I do it?’ They don’t look at the other side of that.

Pulse:As far as your own work, what do you have going on right now?

Johnson:I’ve got a new CD coming out in the fall. It’s called “Hard Times” and the single is called “Black4Life,” featuring Sheanna.

Pulse:Are the tracks for the CD all done?

Johnson:Yeah. In fact the tracks for the next five CDs are done. That’s just how it works. I’m sitting on maybe 150 to 200 tracks. When my friends come over we go through them and they listen to them. I start dishing them out and they write to them.

I’ve got a project coming out after “Hard Times.” This project has been put on hold awhile back. It’s called “SIU:Southern Illinois Underground.” But that’s like two years down the line.

Pulse:Before, we’d spoken about the differences between SIU hip-hop and truly local hip-hop. Do you think it’s a difference in sound or a difference in mentality? Is there really a division between the two?

Johnson:I would say it’s more of a mental one. It could be a difference of sound and what you talk about. You know as well as I do that living in Carbondale and being raised in Carbondale is different from living in St. Louis and being raised in St. Louis.

First of all, you have more avenues to do what you want to do in. There are more clubs that you can perform in. There are record shops that you can sell your records in. So they have more going off the bat. It’s a major metropolitan area, so there’s more to talk about. There are better jobs so people have better cars, rims. Here, you don’t have that.

As far as mentality-wise, we’re such a little-bitty town – I mean Chicago is the second largest city in the United States, and then there’s Carbondale. It’s like comparing an Escalade to a Toyota. You just can’t compare them. The area that you grow up in is different. The way of living, the way you were brought up is different. The resources are different.

Pulse:Recently Hangar experimented with the idea of a hip-hop showcase, and then they had a second, and Copper Dragon had one. Do you see yourself or your peers contacting another venue to see about doing one of your own?

Johnson:Well, when it comes to that I want total control. I want my own set-up. I want my own people on the soundboard, because it’s not just locally or here, but artists always have problems with their sound. It all goes back to when Wu-Tang was beating up soundmen. It’s really hard to get some good sound. Copper Dragon would be the best place for a rapper because they have the best sound.

I’ll probably be putting together a show after this “Hard Times” album gets released. By then I’ll have so much material. The last time I did a show at Hangar, it was only 30 minutes and the crowd was wanting more. So, me and the artists I work with, we have the material to do what we want to do without it being just me rapping every song. So we can do a show.

Although I’m not “official” [Black4Life Productions] – If I ever get my hands on money, I will be official – I have outlasted every other rap label in Carbondale.

Johnson:I don’t know. I think people mix business with pleasure, and I’ll leave it at that. There have been 4, 5 or 6 local labels, and I don’t know if they just don’t take it seriously or made the wrong choices, but it never seemed to work out. And right now I’m the only local, unofficial, that’s up and running. It’s about longevity. I just want to open the doors for everyone else and be respected for that.

When I hear interviews I always hear ‘Don’t give up your dreams’. Personally, I think I’m too old to even be putting up with this shit. I’m 38. But I love it. I’m going to be doing it regardless. Whether it’s for money or a deal, if I’m 60 I’ll still be back here banging out beats as a hobby. If I can make something of it then cool. If not, I haven’t lost anything.

Pulse:Do you ever see yourself at a time when you will just say forget it and move on, or do you see yourself still doing it at 80?

Johnson:Yeah. I’ll never give it up. If I had to roll up here in a wheel chair. Even if I don’t make any money at it, I’ll still never give it up.